To threesome or not to threesome?

The BAD* Sex tête-à-tête series

Hola! Welcome to the first post of The BAD* Sex Tête-à-Tête Series. The BAD* Sex Project in its essence has always been about giving you the confidence to explore your sexuality and open up to your sexual partner about what it is that you want. 

For me personally, having the confidence to talk about anything with my partner is incredibly liberating. It feels very natural to be so open but if I'm honest, it's only a skill I feel I've really grasped in the past 6 years or so. 

My commitment to the BAD* Sex Project sees me constantly trying to think of ways to help open the dialogue around sex. Now I’m not talking about giving you the confidence to get up on a podium and wax lyrical about anal, I just want you to be able to lay next to your partner and say “I want to dress up as a fairy and peg you in the laundry at my mother’s 50th” or whatevs.

BAD* Sex has never been about trying to get you to do things you don't want. The whole point of it is to open your mind and open the discussion, to feel a sense of freedom around your intimate experiences and it's about flipping the finger at fear. There are a heap of things I'd never want to try and that's 110% cool, the important part is that I can feel comfortable in talking about what I want and don't want and want my partner wants and doesn't want.

So I decided that I would start taping some of the chats "Mr C" and I have around sex and love and the whole shebang. I tape them on my iphone and get them transcribed. I'll then send them to all my gorgeous BAD* Sex girls and I'll publish them here. They will be largely unedited and always honest. I'm absolutely done with censoring myself.

In the first of the BAD* Sex Tête-à-Tête series, "Mr C" and I talk about our ideas and feelings around the possibility of having a threesome or having sexual partners outside of our monogamous relationship of 8 years. The inspiration for this chat came from The book Sex at Dawn which I’m currently reading and am finding incredibly fascinating.

Sex at Dawn is written by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha and it essentially challenges the idea that humans are meant to be monogamous. Ryan and Jetha look at “how we mate, why we stray and what it means for modern relationships” by examining anthropology, archaeology, primatology, anatomy and psychosexuality. It’s an interesting, exciting and at times confronting read.


Jasmin: Ok so this book Sex at Dawn is really interesting. As we’ve discussed before I decided to start taping our banters, the authors write about how relationships became more exclusive after agriculture*.  

Mr C: Yeah so before agriculture it’s saying that males and females had much more social, sexual relationships.

Jasmin: Yeah with multiple partners

Mr C: Then after agriculture, things changed, particularly in the west, now there are more monogamous relationships but the author is suggesting that evolutionary history is much more focused on shared communal, multiple casual partners. There's this tension between the way humans have been like for 95% of their evolution, and just for 5% of their human evolution, trying to fit themselves into monogamy.

 Jasmin: Yeah, so we were going to talk about whether we as a couple could have multiple partners or threesomes and how comfortable we would be with it.

 Mr C: Yeah I guess some people might form polyamorous relationships and some might have more casual things. The book sounds like it’s a little bit more towards the fixed bonds but If you have, say one extra female partner join just to casually have threesomes, what's the difference between that and the polyamorous relationship?

Jasmin: Well from my understanding and the chats I’ve had with our friend who is polyamorous, as the name suggest, polyamory is very much about love and about having multiple loves, not just casual sex with randoms.

Mr C: Love isn't just an on-off switch though there are degrees of love. Hasn’t sex also got some aspect of love in it?

Jasmin: That's a good question because I've been with guys before that have said to me “well this is just sex and not love”.

Mr C: The fact that they were attracted to you though…

Jasmin: Yeah, but I guess I wouldn’t call attraction “love”  I guess I’ve never thought of attraction or lust as “love”

Mr C: What's lust?

Jasmin: I think of lust as being like an intense, maybe short-term feeling and it doesn't necessarily develop into love. I’ve always thought of love as this deep-rooted, exclusive kind of emotion. I don't really think of them [lust and love] as being the same thing. I’ve certainly lusted after the guys I’ve had one night stands with but I wouldn’t say I’ve loved them.

 Mr C: My point is that there’s lots of shades between lust and love.

Jasmin: I think love can develop from lust. When we first started going out we were obviously sexually attracted to each other but we didn’t love each other. And obviously you can love someone without being sexually attracted to them.

Mr C: Of course, otherwise we wouldn't love our parents.

Jasmin: Even romantic love, though. If you’ve been with someone for 20 years and you’re not sexually attracted to them, it doesn't mean you don't love the person you're with, you're just no longer interested in banging their brains out.

Mr C: Of course. You can still love them but not be sexually attracted to them.

Jasmin: OK, so let’s kinda get back to answering the question at hand. What are you keen for? A one-off threesome or have regular, casual sex with someone?

Mr C: I think I’d be more interested in a threesome. I think the thing about going off and having sex without you could be pretty problematic. I think if you were to go off and have sex with other men, I don't know how I feel. I'd probably feel jealous. My first thoughts would be feeling jealous, that you were going off having sex with somebody else. If it's part of a mutual relationship, would we feel jealousy? I don’t know.

Jasmin: I think even if it was “mutual” you probably would still feel jealousy. You wouldn’t be able to time it so you were both off doing it at the same time, and then both together. I think it could be really challenging, if I knew you were off having sex with some gorgeous babe and I was just hanging out watching re-runs of Girls, then I could go a bit nuts.

Mr C: But these people [Sex at Dawn] writers are saying that for 95% of human history, people did it, and they were fine with it. It was part of the social structure. Evolution is the way the strongest structures survive, so if that's a behavior that survived 190,000 years. It was a productive relationship. They're saying that now the last 10,000, several hundred years we've been fighting what's a fairly natural thing…

Jasmin: Maybe they just had really good therapists back then.

Mr C: So it sounds like the idea of a threesome is a no for you?

Jasmin: I didn’t say that. As you’re well aware, the threesome thing is a big fantasy of mine but I’m not really sure that I would want to do it right now, IRL. We have a young kid and I have some [abandonment] issues with not having a solid dad around when I was little and I think it scares me to put ourselves in a situation where everything could all blow up in our face.

 Mr C: Well what kind of sexual relationship are you talking about? If you're just talking about occasional casual sex, I don't see how that impacts on the family unit.

 Jasmin: I think the minute you invite someone into that space, it could really change things.

Mr C: If we were to do a threesome or a foursome, obviously we've agreed, discussed it, find the appropriate partners or person, I think that's potentially quite different from a casual sex thing where we're not experiencing it as a couple.

Jasmin: Sure it’s more controlled but I still think it's hard to pre-empt how you’re going to feel.

Mr C: Yeah, of course but that's like everything in life.

Jasmin: Yeah, but I mean you're actively putting yourself out there with a threesome, and I think it's a big step to take.

Mr C: But in that way you've got a bit of control over it.

Jasmin: From what you're saying before, you don't think its possible, to separate sex from “love”. I guess for me, I’m not used to thinking of love as openly as you do or I don’t call those experiences of bliss and desire “love”.

Mr C: For me, I think love is deeply related to a universal bliss, that everybody participates in, and we each experience in various degrees, and if you just experience it in a tiny, separated sense, in just a moment of pleasure, that is an experience of bliss, and love, but it's just a moment of pleasure, like eating a bit of chocolate.

Jasmin: So lust to you is?

Mr C: I think it's a word, yeah? It's a word for describing a particular state. I think the state of lust, or the state of pleasure, is a box around what is a much deeper, fuller state of love, but ultimately you're experiencing the same bliss, but just in a tiny little fraction of it. The mistake we all make in pleasure is to think that the bliss, and the love, because love is just an attraction to bliss ... it depends on how you describe love. To think that your pleasure comes from watching a bit of TV? Then is obviously conditional love, which is I think what most people experience in relationships, where it's I will love you, as long as you do this, and conform to these things. If you step out of those conditional things, I will not love you anymore.

Then there's unconditional love, which is, I love you unconditionally. In a good, proper relationship between a man and a woman, or a man and a man, they have unconditional love. Ensuing might be consequences for one of the parties not sticking to the rules of engagement so to speak, but you still love somebody. I think the bliss that one experiences in unconditional love is the same bliss that one experiences in a moment of pleasure, but just much more boxed. That's my definition of love and pleasure.

Jasmin: Such a wise man-babe!

Mr C: Haha, but you know in that respect, I think if somebody's experiencing a moment of physical attraction to another being, they are experiencing beauty in that form, and then that's bliss. That's just normal, natural bliss, and that is love. Just a moment. You put a beautiful plant, "Oh wow, that is beautiful!" That is an experience of love, yeah? That's what I think.

Jasmin: Well that’s a very enlightened way to think of love but putting that into practice I think is an entirely different thing and I don’t think many people define it like that.

Mr C: No, but I think it's that. I think that lust is then to think, "Gosh, that's the most beautiful plant in the world, I've gotta have that in my house, I'm gonna pay anything to have it, and I've just gotta have it." That's love, lust, desire, and pleasure, and the natural state of experiencing beauty, experiencing love, experiencing bliss, becomes lust and fixated. I have a different opinion, probably, of love and pleasure and that. I do think when people have sex, and it's good sex, they experience a natural state of bliss, and that is an experience of love, not of love of other people, but just that natural state of bliss and love, and that's why people like it. The same as why they like surfing.

Jasmin: I hate surfing

Mr C: Haha. I think if you can strip out some of the jealousies and traditional ideas about relationships, then there's possibility in having multiple people participate in your sexual experience and to have this profound sense of bliss. That would be the aim, isn't it? It's all Greek Dionysian revelry, where they have these orgies so they experience profound states of bliss.

Jasmin: I think if I could get over my fear of jealousy and the worry that it could fuck everything up then yeah that does sound like it could be an amazing experience.

Mr C: That's your overriding fear about it?

Jasmin: Probably. Also because we’ve focused a lot on having another female and that threesome with another female is my biggest turn on in regards to fantasies. I find the female form incredibly beautiful and erotic but I can’t help but think that she’s automatically going to be competition because we want someone hot and sexy and do I really want to watch you having sex with another hot and sexy girl? The thought of it and the fantasy totally does it for me but the reality, I just don’t know. It’d probably be different for me if it was a threesome with another guy. I mean how would you feel about that?

Mr C:  As I've thought more about it, as we've got older and we've discussed it more. The only reason I would say no is the thing of jealousy and the thing of competition. But would I really be turned on by that? Myself and another guy fucking you? I think, yeah. If you were losing yourself and totally wild, I'd think, "Hell, that was very satisfying." I'd just pick a guy that I'm totally comfortable with, and there's no sense of competition there.  You know I’d make sure he’s shorter than me.

Jasmin: No way dude, he’d have to be off-the-charts hot.

Mr C: Haha. My point is, just that because the more I think about it, the more I drop my…

Jasmin: Insecurities?

Mr C: Yeah, it's probably more just insecurities. Then I'll just think well, I'll just control it, so that there's somebody I'm very comfortable with.  I mean what's the real risk? You fall in love with the guy, and run off with him? If you're going to do that, you can do that anyway. You'll fall in love with somebody you just bump into.

Jasmin: Yeah see I don't even think about the falling in love thing to be honest.

Mr C: Am I scared that you're going to fantasise if the cock's really massive? You’ll be like “Oh, his penis is so big. Can't we get Dirk's penis back again?”

Jasmin: Ha ha. I just don’t know. This is the strongest and healthiest and happiest relationship I’ve been in. Even though we’ve been through a lot of shit we’ve had a lot of fun and I guess there’s just a part of me that is a bit frightened of fucking things up.

Mr C: So what’s our conclusion?

Jasmin: I’m open to it but I just don’t know. I don’t want things to get boring, I want us to do fun and kinky shit but at this point I just don’t know.  But you know, like you said, the more we talk about it, the more it’s becoming not so scary but don't get your hopes up. What about you? Do I even need to ask!

Mr C: I think I'm quite comfortable with exploring it. I do see it as more like a sexual thing. I don't know. I guess I'm just interested in trying a range of different sexual experiences. I think the jealousy thing scares me a little bit, but not a lot. I think if we set it up right either with a man or a woman it could be really enjoyable.

Jasmin: Yeah. Stay tuned ;)


 

DO YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO YOUR SEX PARTNER ABOUT ANYTHING? THEN JOIN OUR ASPIRING NYMPHS AT THE BAD* SEX PROJECT

 

 

* Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha talk quite a bit about how humans co-existed before the advent of agriculture. Quoting directly from the book, it says “until agriculture, human beings evolved in societies organized around an insistence on sharing just about everything…But human societies changed in radical ways once they started farming and raising domesticated animals. They organized themselves around hierarchical political structures, private property, densely populated settlements, a radical shift in the status of women, and other social configurations that together represent an enigmatic disaster from our species: human population growth mushroomed as quality of life plummeted” The book goes on to say that “several types of evidence suggest our pre-agricultural (prehistoric) ancestors lived in groups where most mature individuals would have had several ongoing sexual relationships at any given time. Though often casual, these relationships were not random or meaningless.” Instead, Ryan and Jetha argue that “they reinforced crucial social ties holding these highly interdependent communities together”.